As I cover what the Republican candidates say about trade policy, I keep hoping for some general statements on these issues, but what we mostly see is talk about China trade. Nikki Haley was interviewed recently by a couple CNBC people -- in the transcript below, I didn't bother to distinguish between the CNBC people asking questions -- on China/China trade issues. While they covered a mix of general and trade issues related to China, I included everything, because often these days it's hard to separate out the trade from the non-trade issues when we talk about U.S.-China relations. Here's the transcript:
CNBC Person:
We have such a strange relationship with China. It's so important to the world and yet so fraught with risk and peril. Do you have a way to try to walk that line?
Haley:
Well first, let's open our eyes. Let's be honest about what's happening. You know, you sit there and you see Blinken going and and trying to appease China, and Yellen saying "oh let's do more business with China." But the reality is, you know, if you look at Yellen's conversation, she said, "Well, you know, it shouldn't be a winner take all scenario, it should be something where, you know, we play by the rules and we can be fair competitors." But to even say that means you don't understand China. China only plays with a winner take all scenario. They've never played by the rules. They don't see us as a competitor. They see us as an enemy. This is the biggest threat we've had since Pearl Harbor. And just look at what they've done. The infiltration they've done in our country. They bought 400,000 acres of US soil, most recently near Grand Forks Air Force Base, where our most sensitive drone technology is. They bought the largest pork producer in the country. They have spy balloons going over us. But you look, they go and they spend millions of dollars in our universities to spread Chinese propaganda. They have Chinese front companies lobbying our Congress on behalf of the Communist Party. And then you look at the military, at what they're doing. The largest naval fleet in the world, 350 ships, they'll have 400 ships in two years. We won't even have 350 ships in two decades. And now they've become a big developer of neuro strike weapons, which go and impair brain function. And they use that for military leaders, for major populations. They're developing hypersonic missiles. We barely started. I mean, the list goes on in how much ... they're stealing $600 billion of intellectual property from us every year.
CNBC Person:
What do you say to American companies that are doing business there? Do they need to get out?
Haley:
I think American companies need to look at what happened with the Europeans in Russia. What I said -- I spoke to 400 CEOs last summer -- and what I said is, if China pulls the rug out from under us tomorrow, will you be ready? Every company needs to have a plan B. And the way America needs to look at is just from a national security lens, are we ready?
CNBC Person:
But is it a Plan B when something happens? Or is it a Plan B right this minute? I mean, are you saying if Tim Cook is watching right now, are you saying, Tim Cook and Apple you need to actually withdraw from China, both for yourself and for the country? Is that what you're really saying?
Haley:
Let's first talk about what Americans need to know. President Xi started a commission that he personally chaired, that says any company that does business in China has to cooperate with the Chinese military. So look at our tech companies. Look at all of our financial data. Look at all of our health care data. Look at our children's lifestyle data. And now know the Chinese military has it. What I'm saying is we look at it through a national security lens. So when COVID happened, they wanted you to put on a mask. It was made in China. They wanted you to take a COVID test. It was made in China. You go to the drugstore and everything is made in China. Let's just say if China pulls the rug out from under us tomorrow, will we be ready. And for American companies, what they need to understand is, this is no longer a competitor, this is an enemy. And they need to start looking at doing business with our friends: India, Australia, Japan, South Korea. Let's start doing more business with our friends. And let's become less dependent on China. That's what India is doing. ...
CNBC Person:
Right, but the message is "get less dependent on." It's not, "you need to get out right now, because ..."
Haley:
Well, I mean, look, the number one cause of death of adults 18 to 49: Fentanyl. Don't think for a second China doesn't know what they're doing when they have the cartels do that. You know, I personally think if it means us ending normal trade relations, you go to China and say we'll end normal trade relations until you stop killing Americans, look at how ...
CNBC Person:
Would you be prepared to do that?
Haley:
I think China's an enemy. I think we have to take them incredibly seriously. And the problem is, you can look at dollars and cents, or you can look at a threat to America. And I will tell you that companies and people have said for too long, we'll deal with China tomorrow. But China's dealing with us today. We've got to address this.
CNBC Person:
Nationalism is not something that is foreign in this country either. America First. Is it absolutely impossible that China just wants to be a superpower along with us in this great world that we have, with us selling to them, them selling ... ?
Haley:
No, I think if you look, everything they say is about destroying the West. Everything.
CNBC Person:
So it's not just about coexisting in the future?
Haley:
They never once said they want to coexist. Everything they've said is about defeating the West. And read President Xi's own statements where ...
CNBC Person:
You don't think there are elements of things that we need to work on with China to actually have a future as a globe ...
(Other) CNBC Person:
You don't want to destroy your biggest trading partner that you sell all your stuff to ...
Haley:
So that's the problem. Too many people are thinking about the dollars and cents. Are you still going to be thinking about the dollars and cents, do you still think about the dollars and cents knowing that China's now a military installation in Cuba and if they put Chinese military there, are you still going to think about dollars and cents? Because that's what they're doing.
CNBC Person:
The scariest things that people don't even speak about have been written on the op-ed pages of the Wall Street Journal. One is developing a bio weapon that you could inoculate your own population against first, by saying it's a flu vaccine, and coinciding with a cyber attack. They could wipe off the map with those two things.
Haley:
They are trying to beat us on artificial intelligence. They are already doing it with cyber, they're doing it with space. They are coming at all fronts to us and we keep thinking, "oh, but they're such good trade partners." If we don't wake up, we will end up like the Europeans did with Russia. This is the biggest wake up call we've had. And no one's talking about China, but I will continue to talk about it. We can do business with other friends. We can do business with other partners. But if we don't wake up to what they're doing ... and don't listen to what I'm saying, look at what China's done. Look at that infiltration. And if that doesn't send a chill up your spine, I don't know what else to say.
There are a lot of mischaracterizations and exaggerations here, but she is speaking as a politician running for office rather than as someone trying to provide an objective analysis of the situation, so that's to be expected. Regardless, how politicians (and media people) talk about things has a big impact, so it's useful to see what they say, because their views filter down to the public.
On trade, I thought it was interesting that when asked directly about repealing normal trade relations, she avoided answering. It may be that she wants to keep her options open on that point. Vague toughness can be politically useful, whereas specific toughness can get you in trouble.
