There was some discussion of trade in last night's Democratic primary debate:
[DON] LEMON: ...
Let's turn now to the economy.
Congressman Ryan, President Trump's tariffs have boosted the U.S. steel industry but hurt auto manufacturers like those here in Michigan, which could drive up the cost of cars. As president, would you continue President Trump's steel tariffs?
RYAN: Look, I think President Trump was onto something when he talked about China. China has been abusing the economic system for a long time. They steal intellectual property. They subsidize goods coming into this country. They've displaced steel workers, auto workers, across the board, eroded our manufacturing. And we basically transferred our wealth of our middle class either up to the top 1 percent or to China for them to build their military.
So I think we need some targeted response against China. But you know how you beat China? You out-compete 'em. And that's why I'd put a chief manufacturing officer in place to make sure that we rebuild the manufacturing base.
We've got to fill these factories that -- in Detroit, in Youngstown, that used to make cars and steel. We've got to fill them with workers who are making electric vehicles, batteries, charging stations, make sure they're making solar panels.
As I said earlier, China dominates 60 percent of the solar panel market. They dominate 50 percent to 60 percent of the electric vehicle market. We're going to make 10 million electric vehicle somewhere in the world in the next 10 years. I want them made in the United States. That's why I have a chief manufacturing officer that will sit in the White House and help drive this agenda.
LEMON: Congressman, thank you. Just as a point of clarification, as president, would you consider President Trump's steel tariffs, yes or no?
RYAN: Well, I would have to re-evaluate. I think some of them are effective. But he's bungled the whole thing, obviously. He has -- see, here's the problem with President Trump. He has a tactical move -- one of many -- he has a tactical move. What's the grand strategy for the United States? China has 100-year plan, a 50-year plan, a 30-year plan, a 20-year plan. We live in a 24-hour news cycle. That spells disaster for our economy and disaster for our global politics.
LEMON: Thank you, Congressman. Congressman Delaney, your response?
(APPLAUSE)
DELANEY: So, listen. This is what I don’t understand. President Trump wants to build physical walls and beats up on immigrants. Most of the folks running for president want to build economic walls to free trade and beat up on President Obama. I’m the only one running for president who actually supports the Trans-Pacific Partnership. President Obama was right about that. We should be getting back in that.
Senator Warren just issued a trade plan...
WARREN: You bet I did.
DELANEY: ... that would prevent the United States from trading with its allies. We can't go and -- we can't isolate ourselves from the world. We have to engage...
LEMON: Thank you.
DELANEY: ... with fair, rules-based trade.
LEMON: Thank you, Congressman Delaney. Senator Warren, please respond.
WARREN: You know, for decades, we have had a trade policy that has been written by giant multi-national corporations to help giant multi-national corporations. They have no loyalty to America. They have no patriotism. If they can save a nickel by moving a job to Mexico, they'll do it in a heartbeat. If they can continue a polluting plant by moving it to Vietnam, they'll do it in a heartbeat.
I have put out a new comprehensive plan that says we're not going to do it that way. We're going to negotiate our deals with unions at the table, with small businesses at the table, with small farmers at the table, with environmentalists at the table, with human rights activists at the table. And then, we're going to use the fact that everybody in the world wants to get to America's markets. They want to sell to you...
DELANEY: That was the TPP.
WARREN: I'll finish.
LEMON: Congressman Delaney...
WARREN: ... is everyone wants to get to America's markets.
LEMON: Thank you, Senator.
WARREN: No. So the question is...
LEMON: Senator, thank you. Please abide by the rules.
WARREN: ... how we need to raise our standards.
LEMON: Congressman Delaney, it's your turn. Thank you, Senator. Congressman Delaney?
DELANEY: So that was the Trans-Pacific Partnership. I think President Obama was right. He did include environmental standards. He did include labor standards. We would be in an entirely different position with China if we had entered the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
We can't isolate ourselves from the world. We can't isolate ourselves from Asia. Senator Warren's plan, basically, that she put out, we would not be able to trade with the United Kingdom.
WARREN: No, what this is about...
DELANEY: We would not be able to trade with the E.U. It is so extreme that it will isolate...
LEMON: Thank you, Congressman Delaney. Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: ... the American economy from the world.
LEMON: Senator? Senator Warren. Senator Warren.
SANDERS: I was...
WARREN: I think he said...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Senator Sanders, please let Senator Warren respond.
SANDERS: Oh, I'm sorry.
(LAUGHTER)
WARREN: What the congressman is describing as extreme is having deals that are negotiated by American workers for American workers. American workers want those jobs, and we can build the trade deals that do it.
People want access to our markets all around the world. Then the answer is, let's make them raise their standards. Make them pay workers more. Let their workers unionize. Raise their environmental standards before they come to us and say they want to be able to sell their products.
Right now, the whole game is working for the big multinationals. It's just not working for the people here in the United States, and we can change that.
LEMON: Senator, thank you very much. Congressman O'Rourke, your response?
(APPLAUSE)
O'ROURKE: You know, the question was about tariffs. And they're a huge mistake. They constitute the largest tax increase on the American consumer, hitting the middle class and the working poor especially hard, and farmers in Iowa and across the country are bearing the brunt of the consequences.
When have we ever gone to war, including a trade war, without allies and friends and partners? As president, we will hold China accountable, but we will bring our allies and friends, like the European Union, to bear, and we'll also negotiate trade deals that favor farmers and American workers and protect human rights and the environment and labor, not just here in the United States...
LEMON: Congressman O'Rourke, thank you so much. Senator Sanders, please respond to Congressman O'Rourke.
WARREN: I'd like to respond to this.
SANDERS: Yeah, OK. You're looking, I believe, at the only member of Congress who not only voted against these disastrous trade agreements, NAFTA, PNTR with China, which cost us over 4 million jobs, but also helped lead the effort against these agreements.
Now, Elizabeth is absolutely right. If anybody here thinks that corporate America gives one damn about the average American worker, you're mistaken. If they can save five cents by going to China, Mexico, or Vietnam, or anyplace else, that's exactly what they will do.
As president, let me tell you what I will do. These guys line up at the federal trough. They want military contracts. They want all kinds of contracts. Well, under my administration, you ain't going to get those contracts if you're throwing American workers out on the street.
LEMON: Senator Sanders, thank you very much. Governor Hickenlooper, your response?
WARREN: I'd like a chance to respond.
HICKENLOOPER: So -- so I think -- again, I think Congressman Delaney has got a point here. And there is a way of looking at trade that is therapeutic.
The bottom line is, you talk to any economist, there is not a single example in history where a trade war had a winner. Trade wars are for losers. And the bottom line is we've got to recognize, let's negotiate a better trade deal. But you're not going to win against China in a trade war when they've got 25 percent of our total debt.
And step back and look it. Here's Trump gives a giant tax cut and at the same time -- so we're paying in tariffs about $800 to $1,200 per household and then we give this incredible tax cut to the rich. Essentially what's happening is now he's transferred that tax obligation onto the middle class. That's what's outrageous. But tariffs are not the solution.
LEMON: Governor, thank you. Senator Warren?
WARREN: Anyone who thinks that these trade deals are mostly about tariffs just doesn’t understand what’s going on. Look at the new NAFTA 2.0. What’s the central feature? It’s to help pharmaceutical companies get longer periods of exclusivity so they can charge Canadians, Americans, and Mexicans more money and make more profits.
That's what trade deals have become. They have become a way for giant multinationals to change the regulatory environment so they can suck more profits out for themselves and to leave the American people behind. We have to have the courage to fight back against that corruption.
LEMON: Senator, thank you. Governor Bullock, your response?
BULLOCK: You know, a farmer in Rippy said to me, every time that Trump tweets, we lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. If Montana had to eat all the wheat that we produce, every Montanan would have to eat 40 loaves of bread a day.
But by the same token, what we have is -- I actually agree with Senator Warren on this in part. Corporations can move capital easy. Workers can't move. So going forward, we need to make sure that our trade deals actually are protecting -- thinking about the workers. They can't be the stepchild. But the way to do it, with this blunt instrument of tariffs that the president is doing, that's not how we get a fair deal for farmers anywhere or the manufacturers here in Detroit.
O'Rourke and Delaney made the most sense here. By contrast, Warren says things that are very misleading. For example, whatever you think of 12 year biologic exclusivity (I'm against it), it's not the case that it is the "central feature" of USMCA. And given the scope of labor provisions in modern trade agreements, it is clear that unions already have a big role "at the table" to help draft these agreements. And she didn't have a response to the point that her approach is "so extreme that it will isolate the American economy from the world."
But I don't think voters have strong feelings about trade, and no one got very deep into the issues, so as important as Trump has made trade policy, I'm not sure it will play a big role in deciding this primary. Maybe things will change when we can narrow it down to 4 or 5 candidates, and we can contrast the views of Biden and Harris with those of Sanders and Warren.
